Temples: Floating, Ships, Vessels

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  Counselor in the First Presidency Fri., 11 Oct. [1968]: “9:00 a. m. Meeting of the First Presidency with Elders Mark B. Garff, Emil Fetzer and Fred Baker of the Building Committee present. The matter discussed concerned a unique temple facility for persons in foreign lands and in distant areas of the United States who do not have access to the present Temples. (For details see Minutes of the First Presidency and Minutes of President Alvin R. Dyer which follow.) TEMPLES – Temple facilities for those unaccessible to present Temples A Floating Temple Mark B. Garff, Emil Fetzer and Fred Baker of the Building Committee met with the First Presidency and presented to them a proposition pertaining to taking a temple to members of the Church in foreign lands and also to distant areas in the United States who cannot afford to make the trip to one of the temples. Brother Garff mentioned that over a year and a half ago President McKay had given the Building Department the assignment to look over the temples and to come back with a recommendation as to what our program should be in the matter of providing new temples and how we could accommodate our people who wish to go to the temples. Brother Garff mentioned that upon permission of the brethren he had made a trip into the Far East and the islands of the sea, that he made a trip from Alaska to Hong Kong, from Hong Kong to the Philippine Islands, and from the Philippines to New Zealand and Australia, and that he saw a great number of our people who would never have the blessing of the temple. He said there was great wonderment in his mind as to how we could take care of these people because he knew it should be impossible to build temples in all of these areas, and from an economic standpoint it would be infeasible. Brother Garff said that at the request of President McKay he had made a study of this situation and had reported back to the President, and that now he would like to show the brethren the results of his study and also his recommendation. He mentioned that in the Church 52.7% of the members in the United States are within a reasonable distance from the temple, that 1,370,000 can go to the temples; that there are other members within reasonable distances outside of the United States but that is only 7.2%. There are 30%, or 785,000 people who do not have access to a temple. These people are scattered anywhere from Alaska, on the east coast, in the islands of the sea, Australia, Korea, and areas where the people haven’t the money to go to the temple because they are so far away. Elder Garff said that he felt that what we should do is bring the temple to the additional membership of the Church. He said it was the committee’s proposal that he buy a ship and outfit the ship and make it a temple ship and that we take this ship to the ports of the earth where our people are. He said that with a ship we could outfit a temple and take that temple to 30%. Included in the 30% should be people in the United States who are not accessible to the temple and those throughout the world. He said that this could be done for between a million and a half and two million dollars, that a ship could be purchased and remodeled and that we could get the crew and could sail the seas at about a half a million dollars a year. This would mean that there are 50,000 Melchizedek Priesthood members in the Church that we would reach by bringing the ship to them in these ports, and in addition, their wives and children. He said there are plenty of people in the Church who would be willing and who are able to serve as captain and crew members. In this manner he said that we could take a ship to the people of the earth for less money than it costs us to build a temple anywhere in the United States or elsewhere. He thought that they could get this thing underway within a year and could buy the ship and rig it up for our purposes. Brother Baker said that the thing that had led them to consider such a proposal was that as they looked activity-wise at our existing temples today they found that the temples outside of the United States are being utilized mostly for living endowments rather than vicarious work for the dead. He said he did not think that they had ever been in a country considering building matters that a mission president, stake president or someone else hadn’t said that they had picked out a beautiful site which they thought would be wonderful for a temple. Referring to the United States he said our temples are located in the western area which takes care of the bulk of our people, but in visualizing what a ship might do it is startling to realize that in a short time making a very small circuit a ship could cover all the areas of the United States stopping at vital points along the seaboard. He said the idea should be that the ship would be scheduled in these ports for a certain length of time and that the stakes and missions would be scheduled for certain sessions so that provision could be made for living endowments to be given to worthy members in these accessible areas as well as work for the dead. He said that such a ship could travel up the Mississippi and the Missouri rivers and that the entire inland part of the United States could be covered. In this way he said that it would be possible to do away with the pressure that is being brought in the various areas away from the Church until such areas had sufficient membership to sustain a temple of their own. He said that in areas where there was unrest we could stay assay from such places until the unrest subsided. He expressed the view that once every year or every eighteen or nineteen months we could touch all of these particular areas with the vessel. In answer to a question as to whether the ship would fly the American flag it was stated that it would not be the intention to do this, that if it were to sail under an American flag it would cost three to four times the amount involved than if it flew under a foreign flag. They thought there would be no problem at all in getting temple workers who would take care of the ordinance and temple ceremonies on board ship, nor in getting members for the crew. He mentioned that we have many seamen and navy men who like the sea and would be delighted to serve on a ship of this kind. The brethren stated that they had such a ship in mind which is a thousand ton ship and that they had made investigation to see if it was possible to put a temple facility in this particular vessel, that it has four decks and Brother Fetzer explained to the brethren how the ship could be remodeled in such a way as to provide the necessary rooms and facilities for temple work, which would be separate and apart from the space that would be occupied by the crew and would provide necessary staterooms for passengers, waiting rooms, initiatory ordinance roo;ns, etc. It was stated that the complete ordinance could be presented on either tape or film, and this would be like our ordinance rooms in our new temples. In addition there would be sealing rooms provided and it was thought that it would be possible to accommodate three companies a day on the ship. Elder Dyer mentioned a matter that he said bothered him somewhat and that was in the very early days of the Church the Prophet Joseph had said that the waters would be cursed, that he did not know exactly what that might mean but that we should not be insensible to that. He also mentioned the fact that when the saints came to Utah they had to wait forty years before a temple was completed and he did not think it was so urgent that people who live in distant places could not wait a little for a temple. Elder Dyer said he thought this was a wonderful study that had been made and he realized that it might present an answer to an existing problem. President Tanner said it was his understanding that the brethren of the Building Committee had merely presented a program for the consideration of the First Presidency, that they were not saying this should be built or any other temple should be built, that they had made a careful survey in accordance with the President’s request and are merely reporting the results of their survey and study. Elder Garff said that if the brethren would like them to do so they could pursue this matter further and bring actual costs and loot for a desirable ship. The brethren said that they should not do this at the present time. The brethren were agreed that the matter was deserving of careful consideration. Minutes by Joseph Anderson” “(From Minutes of President Alvin R. Dyer) (Meeting of the First Presidency with President McKay) At 9:30 a m. a meeting was held with President McKay in his apartment which was attended by President Tanner, President Smith, myself, Brother Joseph Anderson, and the three members of the Church Building Committee. (Temple on an Ocean-going Vessel) For nearly one hour the brethren from the Building Committee made a presentation suggesting the purchase of an ocean-going vessel, which vessel was to be equipped for Temple Ordinance work and then sail to the various points strategically located throughout the earth where Latter-day Saints, principally in remote places, would have access to the Temple Endowment. It was reported that this project would cost approximately two million dollars and could be maintained throughout the year at a cost of about $500,000 per year, that crews could be recruited by simply calling various members of the Church to a 12 or 18-month mission, and that the members of the crew on the boat would not be the same as those that would be called to officiate in the Temple Ordinances for people throughout the earth. (Comment) It is obvious that this would satisfy a need for the far away, remote places where members of the Church would not have access to the Temple Endowment, but in order for it to be successful it would have to also touch the heavier populated areas in America as well as in South America. Otherwise it would be unfeasible as to cost. The proposition thus submitted is without question worthy of consideration and this is precisely the status that it was left in. There were no decisions made. However, a great many comments were made which consisted of the following: 1. President Smith raised the question that Temples were to be constructed according to revelation in Stakes of Zion. 2. I raised the question as to the cursing that has been placed upon the waters in the last days, as to whether it would be proper in the light of that statement by the Prophet to construct a Temple to sail on the waters. 3. I also raised the question as to the worthiness of the members in far away places or as to whether their association in the Church was sufficiently experienced to have the Temple work performed for them at this time. The Building Committee stated that there were 50,000 men who held the Melchizedek Priesthood in these far away places who would have access to the Temple. I pointed out that even here in Zion only 40% of them were worthy of going to the Temple and it would be probably much less in these far away places. Then if they were not permitted to go with the ship being anchored in a nearby harbor, that it would offend them. 4. The question also arose as to why we should be so pressing and introducing such urgency methods to get the Temple work done for people in remote places since most of the Temple work will be accomplished in the Millennium and no one will suffer who is worthy to receive the endowment and that we sometimes were pressing these matters. I pointed out the fact that my own parents waited 25 years before they could go to the Logan Temple and even though they had the Endowment House before they constructed the Salt Lake Temple, there was no vicarious work done for many, many years after the Saints arrived here. 5. I also pointed out the fact that there were areas in the United States and in South America where Temples should be erected on a permanent basis since they would remain during the Millennium as Temples are to be constructed in North and South America which the Lord has designated as Zion, for the work to be accomplished, not only prior to, but during the Millennium. 6. Finally, while this project appears to have great merit on first thought, the more it is thought about the more problems would seem to arise. However, the matter was left for further consideration by President McKay and the First Presidency.” David O. McKay Diaries, 1968 October-November, Ledger: 95. Gregory A. Prince Mormon Studies Collection, MSS 16540. Albert and Shirley Small Special Collections Library.

  President Alvin R. Dyer

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  • Temples: Floating, Ships, Vessels

  21 Oct 2026